"The real issue, I think, was that despite finding each other interesting and attractive, we were somehow speaking different languages. My attempts to understand him made him feel more alone, more misunderstood."
Especially in early dating, there's no obvious 'best' choice in that scenario
Girl, write about that 30 minute gap, where you electrocuted Archery Man’s dog. What happened with Archery Man’s other woman? What happened with Archery Man??!!
I don’t think there was any one or two or even three things I did that pushed him away. I don’t think my nervousness or my verbalizing that I “didn’t understand” him were the cause of his ambivalence. Those were just the clearest visual and auditory cues that he could point to as evidence that something was off.
The real issue, I think, was that despite finding each other interesting and attractive, we were somehow speaking different languages. My attempts to understand him made him feel more alone, more misunderstood. It was the same dynamic that played out in our interview. I asked lots of questions because he wasn’t making total sense to me, he tried his best to answer, feeling frustrated that it was so difficult to get his ideas across, and we both were left feeling like: Huh??? Why is this so difficult?
— this part feels so true to me! I’m not dating but I recognize a similar dynamic in meeting people and seeing who becomes a friend for longterm and who doesn’t. Sometimes there’s that click and sometimes not… and if I had to explain to someone why it’d be tough
Wowwww!! I absolutely love your take on letting your audience build their own conclusion, and the follow up consensus of the situation. Brilliant and captivating writing. I enjoyed seeing you be able to differentiate between what was and what was not working for the both of you and while I feel like you did majority of the work to come to an eventual conclusion (I wished MM was a little more evolved mentally to be able to express clearly so you wouldn’t have had to go through so many hoops) I still think you did what was best for you and hopefully this taught you a piece of what you’re looking for in a future partner (someone who is communicable and upfront). Xo new subscriber!
The text afterwards I think perfectly encapsulate the chemistry, but fundamental differences between the two of you. I loved the interview & this reflective follow up!!!
Gah so insightful. I think the same thing happened to me too except we dated for 2 years and the conversation was tortuous. But similar conclusion. I find that I want so badly for things to work out that I have trouble listening to my instincts around some of the hard to articulate incompatibilities
Why are men so fucking delicate? lol I feel like with cishet dating in a place like NY men out here are way more limited in perspective for reasons that I'm not entirely sure of (I don't want to reduce it to "all men"), but I think systematically the world caters to make things easier for men, easier to not think so much, to explain less, to not examine why someone feeling nervous and vulnerable triggers them and they make a whole story out of not being understood. I think you were helping him out too much with figuring out his own feelings. I've been in similar situations and I kind of got to a point where I refuse to overanalyze myself anymore, wonder if I did something wrong, or overanalyze a text exchange. I think a good question to ask yourself that sort of gets at how that this person was not matching what you brought to the table is "why isn't this man as curious about me as I am about him?" I find I often afford a lot of grace to men I date if they're not rude and say something a little awkward or nervous, often with the same idea you mentioned in your last post "I interpreted our nervous energy as a positive sign of infatuation-fueled jitteriness, he interpreted it as a sign that something about our dynamic wasn’t working." But for someone to discount another person so quickly if everything else is vibing feels so commonly shitty to say something like "The ease, the ease, felt lost" as if it your responsibility for losing it and he was just observing. This was so interesting to think through with your story. Thank you for sharing!
Just stumbled upon your Substack and man, this is a brilliant, clever, and often hilarious project. Major props for the (internal and external) candor and perspective it takes to pull this off. Keep writing!
This is so excellently written. And it eerily echoes the problems I had with my last relationship -this in particular:
"I asked lots of questions because he wasn’t making total sense to me, he tried his best to answer, feeling frustrated that it was so difficult to get his ideas across."
Communication can be infuriating, and it is based entirely on who you are communicating with. You have to be good at expressing yourself, and they have to be good at understanding you - but you are only good at expressing yourself *if you are able to apply your understanding of expression to what the other person is hearing*. It's a fragile ecosystem!
I treated my last breakup almost like a HR meeting, because *to me* that is the most transparent way I can think of for both parties to communicate needs. "I don't think this is working because I said this to you on x date, and you said abc, and that made me feel like 123 which I told you at the time. You then said you would do 567 to make things better, but you haven't really tried", and so on for several months until we did eventually break up.
Post-breakup I was told by my ex that this was a bad example of emotional communication, because I didn't focus on how I felt and that "solution based relationship discussions" were not the way that my ex could process criticism. This absolutely comes down to comprehension and matching each other; it does not matter how well *I* think I am explaining myself - if the other person does not communicate in the same way then the words I use are irrelevant.
There is also nothing wrong with not enjoying "solution based relationship discussions"! But I think that not engaging with that type of discussion is indicative of a wider lack of compatibility RE communication.
"I was envious that he was so deeply in tune with his gut sense of what it should feel like to be with someone who has the potential to become a long-term partner. Maybe more than just being in tune with it, I was envious that he seemed able to trust it without reservation."
Interesting that you were envious of this! If I was in that position, I would almost suggest that an inability to express *what* that gut feeling is suggests that his approach to what he is looking for in a long term partner is way more whimsical than he is letting on, and that he is not in tune with his gut but rather *not* in tune with his ability to communicate his needs. Which is not inherently a problem - you don't necessarily need that figured out to find a partner, but I think you do need it to talk *with* prospective partners about this kind of thing.
I think it is insane to deny the fact that you put yourself out there in that last text! He thought it was just a normal good luck text? I think you created an opening for emotional intimacy and he denied your bid for connection by not responding. Your person for you will whole heartedly meet you ❤️
I enjoyed and related to this so much!! You have executed something I have fantasized about!!! I do feel like I over-attribute agency to myself where I'm like what if I could somehow prevent the other person's gut from sensing our mismatch or somehow mitigate the mismatch-iness and it's like no... be like Marathon Man... trust your instincts don't bend over backwards and make yourself and other people miserable and misled.
All I can say about the two Newsletters is how lucky you are to have been able to get Marathon Man to sit down with you! Racking our brains and our friends can sometimes feel like an Olympic sport!
This part hit me hardest:
"The real issue, I think, was that despite finding each other interesting and attractive, we were somehow speaking different languages. My attempts to understand him made him feel more alone, more misunderstood."
Especially in early dating, there's no obvious 'best' choice in that scenario
Girl, write about that 30 minute gap, where you electrocuted Archery Man’s dog. What happened with Archery Man’s other woman? What happened with Archery Man??!!
hahaha ok so my secret dream is to find the woman and interview her!
Yes! Looking forward to more from you!
I don’t think there was any one or two or even three things I did that pushed him away. I don’t think my nervousness or my verbalizing that I “didn’t understand” him were the cause of his ambivalence. Those were just the clearest visual and auditory cues that he could point to as evidence that something was off.
The real issue, I think, was that despite finding each other interesting and attractive, we were somehow speaking different languages. My attempts to understand him made him feel more alone, more misunderstood. It was the same dynamic that played out in our interview. I asked lots of questions because he wasn’t making total sense to me, he tried his best to answer, feeling frustrated that it was so difficult to get his ideas across, and we both were left feeling like: Huh??? Why is this so difficult?
— this part feels so true to me! I’m not dating but I recognize a similar dynamic in meeting people and seeing who becomes a friend for longterm and who doesn’t. Sometimes there’s that click and sometimes not… and if I had to explain to someone why it’d be tough
Wowwww!! I absolutely love your take on letting your audience build their own conclusion, and the follow up consensus of the situation. Brilliant and captivating writing. I enjoyed seeing you be able to differentiate between what was and what was not working for the both of you and while I feel like you did majority of the work to come to an eventual conclusion (I wished MM was a little more evolved mentally to be able to express clearly so you wouldn’t have had to go through so many hoops) I still think you did what was best for you and hopefully this taught you a piece of what you’re looking for in a future partner (someone who is communicable and upfront). Xo new subscriber!
The text afterwards I think perfectly encapsulate the chemistry, but fundamental differences between the two of you. I loved the interview & this reflective follow up!!!
Gah so insightful. I think the same thing happened to me too except we dated for 2 years and the conversation was tortuous. But similar conclusion. I find that I want so badly for things to work out that I have trouble listening to my instincts around some of the hard to articulate incompatibilities
Why are men so fucking delicate? lol I feel like with cishet dating in a place like NY men out here are way more limited in perspective for reasons that I'm not entirely sure of (I don't want to reduce it to "all men"), but I think systematically the world caters to make things easier for men, easier to not think so much, to explain less, to not examine why someone feeling nervous and vulnerable triggers them and they make a whole story out of not being understood. I think you were helping him out too much with figuring out his own feelings. I've been in similar situations and I kind of got to a point where I refuse to overanalyze myself anymore, wonder if I did something wrong, or overanalyze a text exchange. I think a good question to ask yourself that sort of gets at how that this person was not matching what you brought to the table is "why isn't this man as curious about me as I am about him?" I find I often afford a lot of grace to men I date if they're not rude and say something a little awkward or nervous, often with the same idea you mentioned in your last post "I interpreted our nervous energy as a positive sign of infatuation-fueled jitteriness, he interpreted it as a sign that something about our dynamic wasn’t working." But for someone to discount another person so quickly if everything else is vibing feels so commonly shitty to say something like "The ease, the ease, felt lost" as if it your responsibility for losing it and he was just observing. This was so interesting to think through with your story. Thank you for sharing!
Obsessed. Some small part of me would like to go back in time and do a series of these interviews. 😂
Just stumbled upon your Substack and man, this is a brilliant, clever, and often hilarious project. Major props for the (internal and external) candor and perspective it takes to pull this off. Keep writing!
That is so kind! Tysm for reading!
I need to know how that story ended as well !
This is so excellently written. And it eerily echoes the problems I had with my last relationship -this in particular:
"I asked lots of questions because he wasn’t making total sense to me, he tried his best to answer, feeling frustrated that it was so difficult to get his ideas across."
Communication can be infuriating, and it is based entirely on who you are communicating with. You have to be good at expressing yourself, and they have to be good at understanding you - but you are only good at expressing yourself *if you are able to apply your understanding of expression to what the other person is hearing*. It's a fragile ecosystem!
I treated my last breakup almost like a HR meeting, because *to me* that is the most transparent way I can think of for both parties to communicate needs. "I don't think this is working because I said this to you on x date, and you said abc, and that made me feel like 123 which I told you at the time. You then said you would do 567 to make things better, but you haven't really tried", and so on for several months until we did eventually break up.
Post-breakup I was told by my ex that this was a bad example of emotional communication, because I didn't focus on how I felt and that "solution based relationship discussions" were not the way that my ex could process criticism. This absolutely comes down to comprehension and matching each other; it does not matter how well *I* think I am explaining myself - if the other person does not communicate in the same way then the words I use are irrelevant.
There is also nothing wrong with not enjoying "solution based relationship discussions"! But I think that not engaging with that type of discussion is indicative of a wider lack of compatibility RE communication.
"I was envious that he was so deeply in tune with his gut sense of what it should feel like to be with someone who has the potential to become a long-term partner. Maybe more than just being in tune with it, I was envious that he seemed able to trust it without reservation."
Interesting that you were envious of this! If I was in that position, I would almost suggest that an inability to express *what* that gut feeling is suggests that his approach to what he is looking for in a long term partner is way more whimsical than he is letting on, and that he is not in tune with his gut but rather *not* in tune with his ability to communicate his needs. Which is not inherently a problem - you don't necessarily need that figured out to find a partner, but I think you do need it to talk *with* prospective partners about this kind of thing.
Subscribed!
I think it is insane to deny the fact that you put yourself out there in that last text! He thought it was just a normal good luck text? I think you created an opening for emotional intimacy and he denied your bid for connection by not responding. Your person for you will whole heartedly meet you ❤️
I enjoyed and related to this so much!! You have executed something I have fantasized about!!! I do feel like I over-attribute agency to myself where I'm like what if I could somehow prevent the other person's gut from sensing our mismatch or somehow mitigate the mismatch-iness and it's like no... be like Marathon Man... trust your instincts don't bend over backwards and make yourself and other people miserable and misled.
thanks so much reading!! glad it resonated
I only read this. I didn’t live it. But I was getting some “this is going too well, too fast and I’m scared” vibes from this guy.
All I can say about the two Newsletters is how lucky you are to have been able to get Marathon Man to sit down with you! Racking our brains and our friends can sometimes feel like an Olympic sport!
Re: microbiome, I think you'd like reading about The Sweaty T-shirt Experiment: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/6/l_016_08.html
omg I am obsessed with sweaty t-shirt studies!! I wrote about them here a little bit too lol, if you're interested: https://areyoumyboyfriend.substack.com/p/why-my-goal-is-to-go-on-more-bad
I need to read more of the Rachel-verse to stay up :x